Hidden Truth/Hidden Truth.iso/data/newspostings/101-200/185

Internet Message Format | 1996-06-07 | 9.0 KB

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From: [e-mail](Charles A. Chrystal )
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.abduct,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,alt.alien.research
Subject: Re: ET's Give Reasons For Animal Mutilations and Human Abductions/"Necessity Supersedes Diplomacy."
Date: 8 Jun 1996 05:43:03 GMT
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Well, it seems we have yet another self-appointed expert.  As a
licensed (Ph.D.) psychologist, I will take issue with the following
points made by "Pookie":

In <4pa19l$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael
Edelman) writes:
>
>Dr. Richard. X.  Frager ([e-mail]) wrote:
>
>: Excerpted From Linda Moulton Howe's Book, "Glimpses of Other
Realities -
>: Volume I: Facts and Eyewitnesses."
>
>:     The motive issue is complex because the aliens themselves seem
to
>: use secrecy and deception about what they are doing and why.  Mental

>: communications, automatic writing, or even face-to-face encounters
leave
>: human abductees with many different impressions and messages about
>: what's going on.
>
>In normal scientific inquiry, we'd say "the data is unreliable"

Comment:  One could say "unreliable," if one is concerned about the
data from a collective standpoint.  Or, one could say that the data are
idiosyncratic.  In fact, most researchers in the social sciences find
that data are idiosyncratic, as people tend to view the (objectively)
same phenomena from different (subjective) viewpoints.  Howe's
statement is hardly surprising.

Pookie continued to quote Howe:

>:      One perspective about different alien types and their motives
for
>: animal mutilations and human abductions comes from a 36-year old
single
>: mother who lives in Springfield, Missouri.  Jeanne Robinson
remembers a
>: "skeleton with large dark eyes," standing at the foot of her bed
when
>: she was four.  When she was twelve, walking in the woods near her
home,
>: a light that looked like a tornado funnel "sucked" her up into a
white
>: room where she was put on a table.  "That was the first time they
did a
>: gynecology exam on me," Jeanne said.  "They put this thing into me
and
>: it was such a shock because I didn't realize they could put anything

>: into me like that.  Being twelve, I was pretty naive."

And Pookie retorted:  >...and dealing with puberty...!

Comment:  What puberty has to do with the quoted material is beyond me,
for I have known no other 12 year old children to report similar
experiences, and I have worked with adolescents on a daily basis for
over 20 years!

Twelve year old girls rarely report for gynecological examinations
unless there is good reason to do so.  Most girls that age would fear
penetration, even in these times.  Pookie, some explanation is needed:
What -- exactly -- do you mean?

Pookie continues to quote Howe:

>:      Jeanne Robinson was afraid she was going crazy.  Budd Hopkins,
>: well-known UFO abduction researcher, referred her to John Carpenter
who
>: lived only 40 minutes from her home.  Every two or three weeks for
over
>: a year, Carpenter explored Robinson's traumatic memories in fifteen
>: hypnotic regressions.  Despite the sometimes disturbing information
that
>: was revealed, the sessions helped Jeanne gain a sense of control,
>: self-esteem and confidence.

And then observes:

>So every few weeks her fantasies are reinforced and extended, and
>suprisingly enough, the become stronger and more detailed. What
>a surprise.

Comment:  For your information, Mr. Carpenter is a clinical social
worker whose training in hypnosis precludes "leading the witness."  As
one of the members of MUFON most involved in the application of
hypnosis to the abduction phenomenon he has long been sensitized to the
"false memory" literature and its allegations.  Hypnosis has been used
to help people deal with traumatic events over -decades- and finds
numerous applications.  To accuse an experienced clinician of
reinforcing and extending a traumatic event is irresponsible at worst,
naive at best.

Pookie continues to say:

>Anyone interested in this phenomena would do well to read the
*mountain*
>of literature in pyshology, centering around the seminal works of
>Elizabeth Loftus, *the* pioneer in a false perception and memory
>studies. See her book "The Myth of Repressed Memory" as well as
>the absolute mountain of studies by her, all in refereed publications.
>A search on the web will point you in the right direction.

Comment:  I take it you've read her book, Pookie?  No doubt she cites
numerous authors who agree with her or support her positions, which is
standard practice in academe.  There is certainly a debate on the
usefulness of hypnosis in uncovering memories, but the matter is by no
means settled, and it is not likely to be settled anytime soon.  I
would add, parenthetically, that many people who state that they have
been abducted by aliens recall critical events -consciously- and
without the application of hypnosis.  Detailed events are commonly
recollected.  What does Loftus have to say about that?

Pookie continues to quote Howe:
>:      Carpenter also arranged for her to undergo a series of
>: psychological tests (MMPI-1, MMPI-2, MCMI, IQ, TAT, Rorschach,
Sentence
>: Completions, Proverbs, and House-Tree-Person drawings) to confirm
her
>: sanity.

And then rants:

>None of these are tests of "sanity". MMPI is set of questions that
>attempts to generate a personality profile in the form of numeric
>scores on various scales. TAT, Rorschach and the others are projective
>tests that are scored subjectively by the typical test giver, though
there
>are some lists of correlated responses.

Comment:  Well, let me just say this:  that if I, or most any
psychologist, were to wonder about the sanity of another human being,
those are the tests that I would select.  Pookie, you are correct that
none of the measures named are termed "sanity tests," but if I want to
find out if someone is psychotic I get out my Rorschach cards, TAT,
MMPI, etc.  Perhaps you know of other tests which are more useful and
have as strong a research base?

Pookie again cites Howe as saying:

> She was "within the normal ranges on all tests" that were
>: performed by a psychologist who had no knowledge of Robinson's
>: experiences or beliefs.

And then blabbers:

>...which generally means "not institutionalizable ;-)

Comment:  Not very funny, Pook.  Not very accurate, either.

Pookie continues:

>You don't need to be crazy to have false memories and delusional
>beliefs, especially when you've had profesisonal help in reinforcing
>these beliefs. We all have some distorted and false memories,
especially
>from childhood.

Comment:  It is true that we all have distorted memories of events, and
it may be that some of those memories are "false" in the objective
sense of that term.  But again Pookie implies bad practice on Mr.
Carpenter's part.

Again we have a quote from Howe:

>  Another independent study by the Center for UFO
>: Studies indicated that she was not "fantasy-prone.  In fact, she was
>: seen as more honest and sincere than the average person.

And a rather naive comment:

>Since when did UFO hunters become experts at judging whether someone
>is "fantasy prone"? At any rate, the term does not appear in DSM
>and is not a shared diagnosis.

Comment:  CUFOS has a number of psychologists and other mental health
professionals on its staff or who serve in a consultative capacity.  I
don't think there are many "UFO hunters" involved.  The term "fantasy
prone individual" has been held out as descriptive of some people who
have witnessed UFO-related phenomena and criteria have been set forth
to define "fantasy prone" types.  It is by no means true that people
who have seen UFOs or who have reported abductions are "fantasy prone,"
however.  DSM, or more correctly DSM-IV, has little or nothing to do
with it.

And finally, Pookie concludes:

>The supposed revelations that follow seem to be a mix of displaced
>sexual fantasies, science fiction, popular saucer legends and the
>like, all probably reinforced by hypnotherapy.


Comment:  It is refreshing to see Pookie use the qualifying word "seem"
in his concluding remarks, for he generally speaks without such
qualification.  He may be right about the "displaced sexual fantasies,"
etc., but then, the jury is still out.  WHATEVER the source of the
reports made by alleged abductees, they are NEW and too complex to be
explained away as "false memories," seizure disorders, waking dreams,
and the like.  They DO, however, bear a resemblance to the reports that
people made about demons, elves, fairies, etc., in times of yore, as
Jacques Vallee has pointed out.  Pook, life just ain't as simple as you
would like it to be.